Apex creation - pine and juniper

Hi folks -
Looking for some guidance on “rules” of apex creation in pines and junipers. I have both a pine and a juniper that each have a big downward bend of the trunk such that the highest point in the trunk comes earlier in the trunk line than the “natural” apex of the trunk continuation that moves lower. I’ve been confused by some comments Ryan has made regarding which branches are “correct” to utilize as the apex in this circumstance. Does the apex always have to be formed by the furthest branch along the natural trunk line, or can one use a branch that arises earlier in the trunk line, as long as the point it arises from is the highest point on the tree compared to the continuation of the natural trunk line, such as the example in this pine photo. For the juniper, I could either A) use the small branches at the highest trunk bend to form the apex, and continue the natural trunk line downward, or B) I could bend the natural trunk continuation upward to a level higher than the big trunk bend, and form the apex from the branches at the tip of the natural trunk line. I know that “B” is acceptable, but I don’t know if I’m breaking a design rule in the case of the pine or example “A” in the juniper.
Thanks in advance for any input.

Forgot the pine pic

I’d say don’t worry about the rules so much. Swooping the juniper back up looks unnatural to me. The small stuff at the top of the curve is fine. Apex literally just means the highest point, anyway. Ryan likes to talk about the relationship between primary trunk line, defining branch, and apex.