Silica Spray Procurement Woes

Howdy Mirai family,

I recently watched some of the videos hailing the positive effects of silica and wanted to get some since I have a couple of trees showing some signs of stress. Eden’s blue gold silica was mentioned specifically by Ryan as being highly recommended by Apical. I went to Apical’s website and saw they only offered what I guessed would amount to a lifetime supply for me, so I tried to find it elsewhere. I went to Eden’s website and found they sold a smaller bottle there. However, when I went to check out I kept getting a google captcha error. I’m real google, trust me. After many frustrating failed attempts to checkout I decided I’d go back and get the big bottle from Apical. It’s supposed to be the bees knees after all, right? But then I kept getting errors popping up during checkout on Apical’s website too! Anyway, I ultimately gave up on Eden’s Silica and I got some Silica Gold off of Amazon.

So I was just wondering… 1) has anyone else had so many issues getting Eden’s products, or is it just me? And 2) has anyone used the Silica Gold stuff before and have anything positive or negative to say about it?

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I have gotten a few items straight from the Eden blue gold site. The customer service is really helpful, maybe try just giving them a call?

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Good to know. I tend to do all my shopping after normal business hours. Too busy during the day. I should have just been patient and e-mailed them though.

BlueGold® Silica (OMRI Listed) – BlueGold® by Eden Solutions (edenbluegold.com)

$26 for 32 oz. I literally just bought a bottle. Try using Chrome as your web browser as recommended.

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Try bluegoldgarden website
Consumer size products
No Google error
Are you using Safari?

I’ll try that. Thanks! Was using safari yes.

Page 2 in plant products
Has this
BlueGold® Pure Silica (Clear Pure Si02 Raw Quartz
It has applications rates on the bottle which the commercial products don’t have clear applications rates for home use.

I have had trouble with Safari on their commercial web page as well, it works when it wants to

Most products are available in 32oz sizes and this website always works with Safari

You can also call them, they are very nice people

I have not used this product specifically but I am seeing great results with the products I am using

Heed their warnings about synthetic inputs and NPK products because it makes water wetter it will make everything in your soil rush into your plant, so if there is a excess of fertilizer in your soil, you could see issues

Trying to figure out if these products can be combined with Bio Gold myself and at what application rates

So good luck in your adventure
They are extremely effective products so I would start with a low dose and proceed with caution

Best of luck to you!!

FYI

I was speaking to Eden today and in reference to trees in general they said.
Trees love silica
Maples are 20% silica
So their silica can be applied once per week as a foliar spray
Again that was in reference to their silica because they know what is in it!!!

I am just throwing that out there
If it helps someone out that is great

Always use caution and start on your garden, plants or cheap trees first!!

Peace :peace_symbol:
CP

Can you drop a link to their silica

Check out my questions in
Forum Q+A 201
At 47:27
If you are still struggling with this new nutrition concept.
I think Ryan spent about 10 minutes on the new program, and what is coming.

In the last Q&A someone else asked a great question and got a in depth answer as well.

Just yesterday I posted a long thread about my experiences but after I saw Ryan’s response in the live stream I deleted it because I didn’t want to offer a conflicting information.

I am still actively applying a lot of Eden Products and learning what you can and cannot do.

I just killed the top of a Maple last weekend because I applied Super Mag and Carbon, WOW!

As Ryan pointed out most trees don’t need magnesium and Eden explained that it was a salt, like sodium, chloride etc. Good thing it was a $25 tree!!
What I am doing is risky and there will be accidents.

I look at it like this.
In an old stream Ryan said Mirai was built on Bio Gold. (And we all know Bio Gold is a excellent product but it is loaded with salts.)

But now he is having problems in his trees and is going with mainly Eden products as recommended by Apical. (He is probably using other companies products as well.)

But Apical highly recommends Eden, and Eden will only use Apical testing so these are 2 separate companies that are changing everything in modern farming.

So if people applied Bio Gold, Miracle Grow, Osmocote, etc and got away with it for years and year, then experimenting with Eden products is far safer and you can reach out to them and they will educate you.

They are an excellent company with a outstanding group of people that work there, I really cannot praise them enough.

If you have questions email Eden they are absolutely awesome to deal with.

I will be spending the $135 for Apical testing soon just to get a idea of what is happening inside my trees after treatments with Eden products.

I think certain products are totally safe to use.
And as I learned some things will cause damage.

I believe Ryan said they are dropping a video soon about how to test and perhaps that will clarify what tests we need, as there are a few options available starting at $85 for the test with add on options for recs and I am still unsure about what is what. But I am sure a quick email to Apical will clear things up.

Best of luck as you travel this path!!
Do not apply magnesium without Apical recommendations as like me, you will damage your trees!!

I am always open to private email about what exactly I am doing, but do to the risks of just applying things randomly I won’t post it publicly and possibly send someone down the wrong path.

I think Eden Silica is safe to apply at a moderate rate once per week as a foliar spray. They use it in Fire Extinguisher aka FXi and also in FX and it is a foliar application, so research Eden Fire Extinguisher to up your knowledge base.

Peace :peace_symbol:

What I did was to screen shot one of the Apical recs in a Q&A and I tried to figure out the application rates being used,

For whatever reason, it just so happened that this particular tree needed magnesium…

Since I happened to have some Super Mag lying around I added it to my mix and in turn killed the top of a Maple.

All the Maples drooped
Everything else looks fine.

Eden products at a PH of 6.4
Are Directly used by your trees so you need to know what you are doing!!

A product like Bio Gold is a slow release fertilizer.
Eden products are completely safe, but they are not slow release
It is like hitting the gas pedal in a Corvette, you better know what you are doing or by able to accept the consequences.

I see this all as a learning process. The tree is alive and will recover with heavy water flushing and the application of silica and perhaps a few other things.

So if like me you choose this path of self experimentation.
Research first
Understand what is a “ salt” because it isn’t just sodium and apply every new product at a reduced rate.

My application rate for this product was relatively low at one tbsp in four gallons of water, but for that tree along with the other items in the mix it was just too much.

I still fully endorse Eden products
They told me what I did wrong
And educated me on how to fix the damage as well as how to avoid the problem in the future.

So for me it is a winning situation.
I know little about horticulture, but I am learning more and more each day.

I will stress that this was my first and only negative reaction to the application of any product!!!

Don’t be discouraged
Test if you can
Approach with caution if you don’t.

Continuing on this discussion you clearly know more that I. As far as silica goes can you look at TPS silica vs. Blue Eden ingredients listed below and tell me your thoughts and how in deffers from the blue eden silica. From what i can see Blue Eden Gold has a nutritional value of
0-0-0 with Saponins and Silica Dioxide. The TPS silica has a nutritional value of 0-0-1.3 says its derived fro. Potassium silicate not sure how these 2 derivatives of silica differ or if TPS would cause damage.

Eden is its own thing man…

Radically different then other products on the market
A lot of there products start with Eden base
So if you buy their silica, you are probably getting it in a base formula.

I don’t know much!
Or I would not have applied Super Mag!

Everything is looking worse today
I actually wish I had some Eden Silica because I would be applying it now!!

I am relatively uneducated and do things based on intuition and instinct.
And this stuff is all science, and it can bite you in the ass!

I don’t know your brand or what is in it
If you try to use it as a foliar then dose low and experiment on one tree only!!

Then if in a few weeks things are looking good try it on something else

Honestly I test everything on my wife’s houseplants first

But this new batch of stuff, I didn’t test and I am afraid I really got bit.

Best of luck to you!!

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Thank you for your input maybe ill try both on different plants and see, what happens.

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Share your results!!

I will say that the TPS looks legit, but it is a silica potassium blend and it doesn’t say what the SOURCE OF SILICA IS.

Many fertilizer companies are using industrial waste in their products :rofl:
Unfortunately that is the way big companies work in the US.

The saponins you referred to are probably part Eden base as all there products share this and Eden states their silica is from quartz rock.

It can’t hurt to try both, if you already have the TPS try in on the lawn, garden, houseplants etc.
If everything looks good, try it on one tree…

Potassium is A SALT !!!

We are trying to avoid salts!

Sodium, potassium, magnesium, chloride are all SALTS

Best of luck, share your results

I should have said

We are trying to reduce salts
Not avoid them entirely

But traditional fertilizer is full of these, rain water is full of them, they are everywhere even in wildly collected material.

So one of the goals with this new approach and why I am sticking with Eden is to reduce these salts in our trees and to actually apply things that push those salts out.

Why don’t people traditionally fertilize bonsai in the summer ?
Because of salt build ups, stresses in the tree due to hot weather, etc,etc.

I can say from experience the right nutrients ( products) can be applied in the summer and the right silica is probably one of them that would be safe to use even in hot weather.

So there is a lot to learn as to the how and why…
By sharing here we can help to build a layman’s knowledge that can be safely applied.

Farmers lose whole crops from using traditional methods
We are stuck in that same loop of traditional knowledge…

Obviously Eden and Apical are on to something…
As is Mirai
Think about how much cash must be invested into Mirai?
There is a reason he has chose this path, because in the long run it will increase the success and sustainability of bonsai in general.

Right now we are all scratching our heads trying to figure out how to apply this knowledge to a tree in a pot, which is radically different from big ag.

I think in 5 years we will have enough testing done to come up with basic recommendations for the majority of popular trees used for bonsai.

I think it is going to take a while for that database to be established and it will eventually leak out as common knowledge.

If Mirai say do this, and our trees die… well that is no good for anyone.
So I believe their stance will stay “ here is how to interpret and apply your rec” for years to come.

I think if we want to side step the apply, test, apply, test, apply test model that exists now we must either wait a few years for Mirai and Apical to work the kinks out, or go on a adventure and try to figure out what the average person can get away with.

Until Apical nobody tested.
Trees survived on traditional fertilizer.

So this entire thing is pioneering an entirely new approach to bonsai nutrition and who better then to lead the way then Mirai.

I would like to remind folks that a salt is the combination of an anion (negative charge) and a cation (positive charge). Salts are the primary way that most of the different nutrients are absorbed by our plants since they are the most water-soluble form. For silicon and most other metals to be absorbed by the plant they will have to dissolve in water as a cation and associated anions to maintain charge neutrality.

The problem is that some common salts contain cations and anions that can build up to toxic levels in the soil and plant. Na+ and Cl- are two most common, but Mg2+ and Al3+ also seem to be an issue based the Mirai nutrition discussions.

Finally, individual cations and anions are not salts. They are the components of various salts. The three major nutrients, N, P, and K, have to be present as cations for the plant to absorb them. They are often fairly tightly bound in most of our organic fertilizers and soil microbes have to break the compounds down to release them as nitrate (NO3)-, phosphate (PO4)3-, and K+ cations.

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Thanks for the insight