Dug up 12 siberian elms last week, all with heights above 2.5 meters. They were untouched in the ground for 3 years for trunk development. It took 3 days, it was messy and tough as hell. The longer you leave them in hope for a chunky trunk the more it sucks when it comes to digging. @PutItInTheGround well said: agreed, nightmare. The next batch of deciduous (linden and stewartia) is already prepared in root control bags with lots of pumice so I expect two things: 100% better growth rate than the horrible clay soil I’m gifted with and a more forgiving harvest in a few years. Win-win
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Any chance you’re in the U.K. and willing to let one of the 12 go?
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Hi U.K. folks. I’ve found a seller on eBay with a load of texel geo discs in 5 inch diameter. I believe these are the discs the telperion guys planted on top of (instead of tiles). Available only in the US and Canada I believe, or from this guy on eBay
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This is slightly off topic - but I thought the comment on the video at 29 minutes regarding air-layering trees rather than digging up the root was worthy of note.
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Hi all. If we’re ‘ground growing the telperion way’ should we be sieving out the fines in our composted bark and manure?
If we’re growing in a mix without the pumice (to save on cost) but with all elements the same (fabric pots, in or on the ground) should we sieve the fines out of our mix?
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Yeah, Terry is a very well known bonsai professional here in South Africa, great guy, super helpful and knowledgeable. He has some amazing tree’s that he has created with his ground growing techniques.
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I hadn’t heard to filter out fines. I’ve filtered out the dust from the pumice but not been very thorough. I don’t have results yet as I only recently started the Telperion way two years ago. Does anyone know more about fines? I hadn’t heard.
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Could just be me taking a practice from one place (bonsai) and applying it somewhere inappropriately (ground growing in bags)
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Bob,
About two weeks ago I paid a visit to Lone Pine Bonsai to peek @ their field grown JBP. ALL their large (I believe aprox 20”) grow bags for JBP were ABOVE ground.
Their second generation, so though they might be far from perfect, they must be doing something correct to have stayed in business for so long in such an expensive part of the country.
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Thanks for the info. I planted 3 young trees (a larch, a JWP, and a Japanese Maple) in grow bags this spring to see how they do. The bags are on my benches instead of the ground. The larch and maple are doing well, but the JWP died. I don’t think the bag was the issue. I’ve lost 4 of 5 young (3 yr old) JWP I repotted this spring in colanders, root maker pots and grow bags. I have lost more JWP in repotting than all my other tree losses combined in the past 5 years. They seem very sensitive to root work.
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@Bob_McCarlie for the conifers, are you barerooting? Or are you leaving 60+% of the root mass untouched? A lot of the benefit will come from getting the tree in the ground. Sure, some extra air penetration and airpruning help on the bench but to really 2-3x your growth put in the ground (plus it’s much more hands off as water retention is better, no plant dance in the shoulder season, insulated in the ground from heat, cold and wind).
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Any updates fellow ground growers?
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Any updates fellow ground growers?
I had to dig my trees out of the ground to move house in October 2022. The trunks of my trees in the ground are, approximately, 2-3x the diameter of those I kept in pots.
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I have some that I’ve grown in the ground, starting to get some bigger ones now. I also had to move and put a few in colanders for a bit. I have a lot more I’m planning to put in the ground. I used the same mix mentioned above, or close to it, with the pumice/composed pine bark/and cow manure. I put a 2inch trident in the ground (no root bag) over a tile and in a few years over tripled its trunk size and got an even bigger nebari with some fusing beginning. This tree wasn’t even in the ground 3 years. The key is to fertilize as heavy as you can and make sure it get watered (it’s in the ground so overwatering and over fertilizing aren’t really a concern). You have to stay on top of pruning so things don’t get too far out of hand but need to of course balance that with over pruning and slowing it down too much. I’ll post some pics soon with updates and my experience. I’ve also listened to the Telperion podcast probably close to 10 times, so just trying to emulate what they do. Dont be afraid to use tons of chemical/non-organic fertilizer on these guys! The also mentioned a very low pH on their irrigation water, I’m curious what effect that will have on the trees is altered…especially for the pines 
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Does anyone know if this podcast is still available somewhere?
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I have a good amount in the ground and have for several years now. Some in grow bags some not but I have all raised beds. I did the same thing listened to this podcast 25–40 times. I went slightly in a different route because I designed my landscape/garden with about 30-40%% trees I am developing for bonsai long term. I will include some pictures and basically every 2-3 year I go through and do root work. I try to stay on top pruning but its not that bad because I dont fertilize as heavy because I dont want to deal with the speed of growth and would rather go slower and keep the garden aesthetic as a slight tradeoff.
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