Ca/Mg ideal ratio

[Manosma8]

Hi everyone,

Having heard about the importance of Calcium/ Magnesium ratio on trees nutrition, I was wandering if anyone knows what would be the ideal Ca/Mg ratio, not only for a targeted supplement, but also for a general fertilizer.

Ca/Mg specific supplements to help with deficiencies, usually have a Ca:Mg ratio between 2.5 and 3.7 (meaning that Ca is 2.5 times more than Mg, regardless the concentration of each element). On the the other hand, that ratio of some organic, broad spectrum fertilizes is around 7, or sometimes even 9 (meaning that meaning that Ca is 9 times more than Mg).

Taking into account the emphasis given in Mirai Live (especially in Lectures), regarding the imbalance of Ca/Mg that causes toxicities and deficiencies in other elements, and the importance of Ca for growth (biogold Ca ratio of 13% is what makes it a good fertilizer, in comparison to others), I would like to know what would be ideal concertation/ ratio between them, when it comes to choose an organic fertilizer.

I haven’t found anything related yet. I know it takes lab testing to answer that, one solution is not applicable to any tree, but If I had to choose between 2 fertilizers, and one of them had better Calmag ratio, I’d go for it.

Thanks,

Manos

[CMP]

Having done Apical testing and watched all the available content in the
Q & A session my guess is that what they are talking about is the cal/mag ratio that exists in the plant. Which is discovered from a sap analysis and then adjusted with either calcium, or magnesium, and other elements.

If you listen to every question in the Q & A sessions I think you will hear the required difference but I don’t think buying a fertilizer regardless of how perfect the balance is, will necessarily fix the issue.

Because each plant is starting with a different cal/ mag ratio. So a all in one fert might be perfect for one plant, but be horrible for another based on that plants cal to mag ratio.

I don’t know if that helps or if I am even correct. But with the Apical approach you apply cal as its own product. Then phosphate as it’s own product, then mag as it’s own product so you can apply more of one, less of another to achieve the desired results.
Akadama is high in magnesium so we don’t add it very often!

A one and done fert will never really give you the needed control to address each plants needs.

After a year of Eden, Apical, recs, guesses, etc etc

I think some of the answer lies in feeding less, not more.
Because these one and done ferts contain as much bad as they do good.
And the variables are endless.

Wildly collected material is remarkably unbalanced when tested, actually totally missing some elements completely but the plant is growing and thriving, nature is not bound by our limitations.

Please share what you learn!

[CMP]

These are my go to Eden fertilizers.
The max rate for both when used together in a full 5 gallon bucket is
ONE TABLESPOON EACH MAX RATE IN FIVE GALLONS.

If using city water fill the bucket and wait 48 hours for it to gas off what it can
Adjust the PH to 6.5 - 7 ( I use white vinegar to lower my municipal water PH)
Then add the fertilizer mix with a wooden spoon and water your plants accordingly.

Check out the label on the alfalfa blend, high in calcium, both products have carbon so you need to mix them to keep the nitrogen up.
Carbon will eat up all the nitrogen in the pot so you must apply nitrogen with carbon as a general rule.

Try it on a shrub in your yard or a cheaper tree first if you want to see the results.

Eden products are excellent quality and they work well and honestly 99% of every product on a Apical rec is manufactured by Eden.
Good luck.

[CMP]

You could also play around with something like micronutes, but you must read the warnings and understand them.
You also must be 100% organic

It is kind of like Yin/Yong and the idea of balance. The goal would be to bring balance of all nutrients, which drives the need for Apical testing.

But for hobbyists with cheaper trees and a limited budget using the same products but in a different method COULD be better then a one and done fertilizer solution.

So if you look into this product it is applied only a few times a year 2-3 and it is applied at 1/16 - 1/8 tsp PER GALLON.

But remember just like a one and done, you have no idea of what is going on inside the tree without testing so in theory you could kill your tree with over application.

[Manosma8]

Chris, what a blast!

Thank you a lot for your time and recommendations.

I can understand the importance of sap testing, in order to provide nutrition needs, individually in every tree. Or at least at those which show some deficiency/ problem.

The thing is, that in EU there are just couple of labs providing this kind of testing, from what I hear. Nevertheless, it wouldn’t make lot of sense to spend more money to occasionally test some trees, than the objective value of trees themselves. But, I totally recognize the big advantage that way could provide to our practice.

As for the products you’re recommending, they seem pretty comprehensive and accurate (who else is providing 4^th decimal to a metal content? ). In my case, those Eden products are not available here, though.

What I’m recently started using for trying to keep Ca/Mg ratio OK, is this calmag dedicated product, with the Ca/Mg content as shown in attached image. As you may see, the Ca:Mg ratio is 2.5.

Additionally, I’ve started to provide plain Ca liquid fertilizer, with a product containing CaO 19%, both with foliar spraying as well as drenching. Every time, I try to adjust solution pH close to 6.4-6.5. I hope to see some good results.

From the products you’ve shared, it seems that Ca is 17 times greater in content, only in this wetting agent. What is the form of these products? I guess not a dry, pelletized, organic type of fertilizer.

If anyone else has experienced better results with an organic fertilizer containing specific Ca/Mg ratio, instead of some other, please share.

Regards

[CMP]

I agree with you that testing on a inexpensive tree may not be cost effective.

All the Eden products I use are liquids but many are actually like pudding in their consistency. I think in general Mirai and it students have found that powdered products do not work well in aggregate soils as they junk up and reduce air circulation, collect at the bottom of the pots etc.

Sorry I was not much help, but like you I am trying to find a better nutrition system to use and I am experimenting right now with all Eden products because that is what is available here in the states and they are a great company to deal with.

Ryan still seems to be recommending Bio Gold as long as your PH is above 7 or 7.5. Something about the acidity of a lower ph causes problems with Bio Gold but I am not sure exactly how it turns toxic. You could reach out to Mirai for clarification.

Have you reached out to Greenwood or Heron’s Bonsai in the UK?
They are doing things differently so they may have some additional insight on products available in Europe.