Multi-Flush Pine Developement Question (needle buds)

During the recent multi-flush pine stream there were a lot of things discussed. One of the major things was when the shoots turned from green to yellow you could cut them to length between the needles. Ryan said this would cause buds to form at the base of the needles where you cut the shoot. Are these the same as needle buds that form between the pair of needles?

The reason I ask is that when studying with another professional I was told that you have to make sure that you don’t candle prune a needle bud when it produces it’s first candle. The reason being that a needle bud was the only bud at that location and it is different than a terminal bud site that can produce more buds.

I don’t remember Ryan making this distinction between needle buds and terminal buds when it comes to candle pruning.

-Minnesota Jeff

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Are these the same as needle buds? Yes and no…Yes the new buds will form from the needles, but by cutting at this time of year he is creating a new terminus. This is multi flush “structural pruning.” Buds will form at the new terminus, and he will shoot select in the fall/spring after they have hardened off. “New Terminus” is the key here.

The second paragraph is true. Your “needle bud” is a “back bud,” and you would leave those and so did he.

What you are talking about is mostly used in refinement, but this is true for any back bud you would want to leave on and use.

Have more bonsai fun.

So at first glance I don’t feel like your response answered my question. Consider this scenario…

Consider a branch that has never been candle pruned. in the spring the terminal bud at the end of the branch grows into a candle. In June you cut off the entire candle. In that same year 2 new buds form, turn to candles, elongate, and harden off. Next year at the end of last years growth is a normal terminal bud. In the spring the terminal bud at the end of each shoot grows into a candle. These can be de-candled. In that same year 2 new buds form at the end of each and turn into candles, elongate, and harden off. This is normal de-candling. year 1 -> candle -> cut -> candle -> shoot. Year 2 -> candle -> cut -> candle -> shoot.

When Ryan cuts the yellow shoot, I believe he said that it stimulates buds to form but not elongate into candles that year. If that is true, the next year those buds with form candles. if you de-candle them my understanding is that there won’t be more buds at the base of those candles for a second flush at this “created by cutting” terminal end. You would have to wait another year for them to create the next extension of grown from a natural terminal bud.
year 1 -> candle -> SHOOT -> cut -> BUD. Year 2 -> candle -> shoot. YEAR 3 ->candle -> cut -> candle -> shoot.

sorry this is so technical but it’s important. I noticed you said shoot select but there was no mention of holding back on candle pruning in your answer.

Ryan are you out there? :wink:

Yes, it will produce buds that do elongate that year. That is why it is called “multi flush.”

What you are describing in your example is a “single flush” pine like a scots pine.

Watch the very first stream and you will see an example of the result of what was pruned.

Or… you can get it from the horses mouth on this link

Ryan very rarely comes on the forum

Relax, have more bonsai fun!

I was outside looking at my pines and I thing I understand what you are saying now.

So…Yes, I guess I would consider the buds at the cut site needle buds by what you are saying.

But. on a multi flush, normally, depending on the strength of the new spring shoots (new shoots from previous fall), you could candle prune or at least nick the terminal buds.

I would never candle prune a new back bud/needle bud, just nick the terminal buds.

You are right that he never mentioned needle buds, but he did leave all the back buds/shoots.

More Bonsai fun