21st century bonsai wire

I wish Ryan could take a note from Peter Warren’s page and do corrections of dated material - just a scripted comment across the bottom of the screen.
I wince every time I see him lick his finger when rewatching an older presentation illustrating the spreading of putty over a large wound. And I wonder if there may be a potential for lawsuits in the future. The updated fertilizer info is another great example.
The setup for the library is great if you are always looking for the most recent info, but as newbies learning the basics perhaps we are destined to repeat earlier experiments.

How’s that for wandering off the topic? :pensive:

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That’s funny; yeah, I always see him saying to use a fresh dose (or 2!) of biogold in the fall. Didn’t know he mentioned to use 0-10-10 last year (it’d be a kick to see where in the library he told you to use it.) I’m 20 miles north of NYC (don’t know where you’re at, but if you’re around swamps, that’s a much warmer climate!) and with the autumn dose I’ve noticed this tendency- on my deciduous, the trees which leaf out once (unless you encourage a second flush), like Japanese maples and beech, have gigantic leaves/course growth the following spring, even without any spring fert, and those that seem to grow constantly throughout the growing season (such as elms) grow vigorously, but are quite normal. The pines and elongating stuff, which are Ryan’s main area, seem fine with the fresh autumn dose. I dunno, sometimes I think I can be a little helpful because I made so many mistakes over the years. Of my 3 biggest mistakes, I’d have to say falling into a routine of using liquid chemical fertilizer for a time was the biggest (I listened to the wrong people); I used to like to collect/experiment with oddball plants, but after a couple of years in the containerized bonsai environment they would decline, so I would give up on them; didn’t realize I failed because I was using liquid fert. A lot of my trees slowed down because of it. Liquid seems to work pretty good in the garden, tomatoes and such, because it’s present longer in the soil, and maybe some foliar feeding (which I do on azaleas) but that’s about it for me. Also, about tree size- as time went on, I found myself selling or giving away (or putting back in the ground) trees that were just too small. There’s a little bit of a subliminal fake-out that occurs in bonsai- in that, say, if you’re into aquariums, you see a picture somewhere of a fish that you may want, and in the pic the fish is 4”, so then you go and see it in a pet shop, and guess what- it’s 4”. You see a bonsai in a pic and it’s 6”, but in reality, it’s actually 36”, and even when you know it’s that big, it’s hard to get it in your head, especially if you’re not actually exposed to bonsai that are that big on a regular basis, and you (I mean me, of course) are subtly fooled into thinking that you can perhaps achieve in, say, a 12” to 15” tree what you see in that photo of a 36” tree. I’m guessing this may have been discussed somewhere else, but I haven’t noticed.

I remember being surprised about the 0-10-10 recommendation last year because the year before he talked about how important nitrogen is in the fall. :man_shrugging:

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I guess we’re all still learning. Bonsai, like just about everything else, goes round in circles. Even the Bonsai masters do things differently and some of us follow one while other follow a different one, all swearing their method is the latest and the best thing since sliced bread.
I started in 91 on my journey into bonsai. Compost and grit were the planting substrate of choice because trees need the microbial activity within the humus. Then akadama became the in thing, but having noticed how the trees growth is less robust I have moved a lot of my trees back into compost and grit. Sure you have to repot slightly more often, but the same refinement can be achieved with proper techniques.
Next they’ll be telling us that worm casts are the next big thing when gardeners have been using them for decades.

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If I had them, you would get 3 thumbs up, Keith…
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I have been doing this since about 70…
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I find it amusing we are NOW putting organic material ON the A:P:L; JUST to mimic the happy organic compost component I have always used. Especially decideous.
HOWEVER… I do like the friability (drainage and non-compaction) on the A:P:L. More oxygen. Happier trees. (Full disclosure… I tried Akadama in the 90s. Turned to mush and then concrete…)
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As to the 21st century wire… I tried that in the 70s. Was OK. Caused wire scars, too, if left on too long…Worked but way ugly. EASIER… to use the copper and aluminum. Just hafta pay attention; to tree growth, and fertilizer, and water, and bugs, and…
Apperantly we ALL have ADD!
.I’m not shure about these newfangled computer thingys… the might be just a fad…:rofl:
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Back to bonsai ing…

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Nitrogen will always be part of a plant’s growth. Auxin, cytokinin, gibberelin, chlorophyl and etc are compounds that have nitrogen in their chemical composition.
Cellular repair, division (growth), hormone production, and etc require nitrogen bearing compounds like protein, non-proteinous nitrogen compounds (like urea), hormones, amino acids, and others.
So a balanced fertilizer is more beneficial than a 0-10-10.
Though in theory, 0-10-10 applied at the right timing for the right purpose can benefit the plant by giving it a boost right before flower or fruit production which pulls more energy from plants at the decline or trough of metabolic activity utilizing more carbohydrates needing phosphorus and potassium for energy production (ATP). Again, in theory.

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Hey, that’s the same year I started, thanks for posting (I don’t feel so old now!) Yes, always learning, observing, and hopefully, not always being humbled…. Soils- uh, that’s always an enigma wrapped in a riddle soaked in Sake, now isn’t it? In the past (except for azaleas) I used an inorganic mix. I also always had a big (expensive!) jar of inoculant, and I’d sprinkle a few spoonfuls on the roots too. After avoiding it like the plague, Ryan did give a cogent argument for the use of akadama, so I’ve been experimenting with it the last few years; we’ll see…

I have a few legacy trees that are/were planted in this mix. I was very surprised at the root structure when I repotted some of them.

It’ll be interesting to see where were forced to go when akadama becomes scarce.

Wow. Impressive. 50 years! Didn’t they start taking the dirt out of bonsai dirt about 20 years ago? Boon, among others, maybe started that? (I forget much.) As to soils… so, what I was doing when I didn’t know what I was doing may, in fact, turn out in the end, be the right thing to do. So you used that coated stuff early on? Here’s an idea for the wire- maybe someone can come up with some material (w/flexibility+strength) that accepts the branch pushing into it, and so the material becomes scarred instead of the branch. Maybe I should contact NASA, or Area 51, or Sheldon and Leonard and his buddies. And actually, when I put this initial post out there, I wasn’t thinking about me in particular, but all of us. Hey, if we found something new maybe even Walter Pall would be able to learn how to wire!

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When I was in high school, I was learning from the Sunset Magazine Bonsai book. Still have 2 copies.
Tried 12 ga copper electrical wire. Some with plastic cover… used the ground wire, not anneled, worked on the small trees I was working. Would have never been usefull on bending large branches.
I ran into the Floral department coated iron wire in the mid 80. Not so usefull.
I have mostly done clip n grow. Still have several of my 90S trees. Wiring them PROPERLY now. Old school Japanese techniques mixed with Mirai and some of my dad’s (and grampa’s!) tools. Real sharp knives and chisels.
My design abilities have improved with Mirai. Then my wife wanders by and points out the obvious… that I didnt see…:expressionless:

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Hey Bill - I’m totally with you on that. Having been in the recording / electronics business for most of my life I have worked with a lot of different kinds of wire, with a variety of jacketing. I think a solid core wire with a butyl rubber jacket would have good potential. The hurdle as I see it is that copper wire won’t be annealed, and solid core aluminum is not popular except for cheap electrical wiring. Having recently retired I will look into this with some of my industry contacts. I have scarred up many of my deciduous from lack of experience and while proper vigilance and timely removal of wire is part of the bonsai skill set and should not be side-stepped, a jacketed wire is the same tool as paper wrapping IMO and a valid consideration for 21st century practice.

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Bob- Well if you find something truly usable, put your name on it right away, because someone else will come along, slap the word ‘bonsai’ on the package label, and sell it for 3x more than it was originally. Even if we can get an extra 4 to 6 weeks of wire placement without scarring it would be worth it. Using copper wire actually doesn’t bother me too much, as when I finish the initial styling of a pine or a spruce, for example, my first thought is- “That looks pretty good”; I do the same with a deciduous tree using aluminum, and my first thought is- 'Crap! Did you have to use so much wire!" I’m actually a very happy camper when it comes to bonsai, but this one particular tool (wire) I do find to be lacking.

Hahaha, my thoughts exactly. Luckily once those primary and secondary branches set you can move into clip and grow. Species dependent of course.

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You can find paper wrapped aluminum wire online.

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Yes cool - thanks - transformer or electromagnet wire is solid aluminum, either round or rectangular, paper covered. The question would be how thick is the paper and would it do the same or better job as paper towel wrapping? Since the goal is insulation rather than padding I think they want to keep it as thin as possible to save space in windings. Getting samples might be tough since companies that sell this sort of wire want to know “How many miles do you want?”! I am about to do some experimenting with EPDM rubber sheathing that I will put on Mirai copper wire.

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I wrap my wire in 1” (2.5 cm) wide floral tape when I want that extra protection on a deciduous branch. I wrap it at an overlapping 45 degree angle keeping constant tension while wrapping. I don’t wrap the tape around the wire; instead, I turn the wire between my fingers while pulling it away from the tape as it unspools. Because floral tape sticks to itself, this whole process doesn’t take long and the paper stays in place if you wrap it enough tension.

I bought light green tape thinking that it would be less noticeable. In hindsight, I want it to be noticeable so I can see at a glance that the tree is wired. When it blends in it’s easy to overlook a branch and, even though wrapped in paper, wire damage may occur on soft bark if you didn’t check a tree in time. Next time I buy some tape it’ll be a bright, contrasting color. You can buy the 1” tape on the internet. It comes in several colors.

Here’s an example on a short piece of wire:

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I’m not sure what it is that you are trying to achieve with paper wrapping and/or finding other wrapped wire. The only very useful application for paper wrapping is on on heavy copper wire with very smooth thin or fleshy barked deciduous trees… but it still doesn’t stop you having to watch the wire very closely and remove it in a timely manner. I don’t think any innovative padded or wrapped wire can save you from a lack of diligence or technique.

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